R&F Handmade Paints Forums

joannemattera · 2007-09-09 12:19:15

Hi, All--

Lately I?ve been hearing about how toxic encaustic is. I mean I?m hearing this often, and from a lot of people?artists and dealers alike.

Are we, as artists who work in the medium, being overly cautious? Are we being overly explanatory of its dangers? Or are we?well, some folks?just using the medium incorrectly? I think it?s all of the above.

Here are some examples:

. A couple of weeks ago, while taking a group of students on a ?Wax Walk? of the Provincetown galleries, we stopped before a series of lovely small landscape-ish abstractions. The dealer started to explain the encaustic process to us, describing it more or less correctly, and finished with, ?Not too many artists use it because it?s extremely toxic.?

?It?s not extremely toxic,? I said.
?Oh, yes it is,? she said.
My students held their collective breath wondering what would come next.
?No, It?s not.?
?Really, it is. It?s very, very toxic.?
?Madam, I wrote the book on encaustic, and I?m telling you that if encaustic is used correctly, it most certainly is not toxic,? I said. ?People who use turpentine in the studio are working more toxically. People use pigment powder are working more toxically. But if you know what you?re doing, it?s not toxic.?

. Then we went into another gallery where the artists talked about her process. She described it something like, ?I paint with layers of oil and beeswax and tar and cold wax, and sometime I throw some turpentine on it to get these nice loose areas, and then I torch the whole thing.?

Well, that?s toxic. But frankly, it?s not encaustic. It?s a mixed-media painting just waiting to crack and fall off the canvas.

. I made a recent studio visit to a New York artist who works in a small studio without ventilation. That?s toxic.

. Then this past Friday night at an opening in Chicago, I heard an artist? one who does ventilate?say, ?Yes, I work with encaustic but it?s very toxic.?

Bottom line, I think misinformation is increasing at a time when more people are engaging the medium, many of whom are using it incorrectly. I?m not sure what the answer is, but at least I can pose the question: What?s going on here?

Jim Talt · 2007-09-09 14:59:11

Did either the Provincetown dealer or Chicago artist offer reasons for why they believe encaustic is toxic? If not, next time ask them why they believe it's toxic thereby providing them the opportunity to dig a deeper hole for themselves. Though they may have a point; I suspect that consumption of 10 lbs of pastilles could indeed be fatal.

Ed Angell · 2007-09-09 15:01:43

Hi Joanne,

nice post. The problem is that a lot of people just are to lazy to get all correct information on a subject. Critical thinking has been replaced by retold rumors and plain ignorance. All the information needed to make good judgements about any subject have never been so easy to obtain, yet people just aren't willing to do the research.

What is interesting to me, this phenomena seems to be most prevalent here is the U.S.

Let's hope this next round of encaustic books will seize the opportunity to further educate artists and others.

Ed Angell

pfarrell · 2007-09-09 16:51:33

Joanne, I wish I had been there to witness the exchange you had with the gallery owner who insisted on the toxicity of encaustic. Sounds like you responded with admirable restraint--something I might not have been able to do so easily!

In response to the topic in general, here are the most common misconceptions I hear about encaustic:
--it's toxic

--any kind of painting involving wax of any kind, hot or cold--being referred to as encaustic

--the question of encaustic having all kinds of conservation issues. this being from gallery owners and artists, though not artists working in encaustic: it's fragile, sensitive to heat, easily scratched, and that it will disintegrate over time. This is usually met with deafening silence when I respond with the common sense statement that all works of art are subject to damage if mishandled, and when I bring up the Fayum portraits at the Met.

--"Oh, it's kind of like painting." (This is my favorite--from an artist after I describe the process.)

I do continue to explain, describe, demonstrate, show Joanne's book...

Deanna Pindell · 2007-09-11 13:54:02

I wonder if some artists or dealers are over-emphasizing this point in order to enhance the aura of "uniqueness" or "rarity" of the medium... perhaps as a selling point to increase the dollar value or collectibility of these artworks ?? Or perhaps are some artists even trying to discourage other artists from trying it, to keep encaustic from becoming too popular or common ??

Yes, that's a cynical note, and I do agree with you, Ed, about American culture toward personal responsibility.... but oh, well...!!

Best to you all, just keep on doing what you're doing and enjoying.
Deanna

little doodler · 2007-09-12 02:34:43

i think this is the just the state of humanity. We are run by fear.

Rodney Thompson · 2007-09-13 12:28:12

This is all very puzzling to me. Prior to discovering encaustic I was working on sheet lead with powdered pigments, acid, patina chemicals, and flaming the whole thing with a torch. Now that's toxic! Of course I wore a respirator, worked outside and used a vacuum to try to pick up stray dust, and frequently had my lead blood level checked. I knew it was dangerous but was seduced by the materials and what I could do with them.
Once I tried encaustic I left all that other stuff behind and was delighted at what a benign, natural, and safe medium I had found, that offerred even more seductive and creative possibilities.
Anything can be dangerous and toxic, even water and oxygen, if not used properly. It is up to the artist to know the risks and precautions involved with whatever materials we work with and use them as safely as possible.
It would be sad if incorrect information leads to any diminished use or appreciation of this wonderful medium just as it begins its resurgence.
I wonder sometimes if the term "encaustic" leads to misunderstanding, since when I ask someone if they know what encaustic is, I often get a response like "is it acid" or "something corrosive", because of the "caustic" part of the word. I suppose it is too late to change the name.

Layton · 2007-09-13 16:29:47

I am puzzled by this topic. First off, I practice safety and proper venting in the studio. What I get from galleries (mostly finicky ones) has nothing to do with toxic (I don't think it's an issue to them, when the bottom line is money and will it sell in their gallery.) The biggest thing I get is "IKE" it's wax won't it melt! I know it's my job as an artist to let them know the stability of the medium and that proper conditions/enviroment (which most people have....if their buying gallery art) but I still get that hesitation and that "we'll have to see response." So, toxic I throw out the window every time I go to the supermarket to buy meats, produce,etc.
I know what works for me and that is to just be aware of what goes on in my studio and use my better judgement, always wash your hands.

Layton

little doodler · 2008-01-11 15:10:01

just the word encaustic, sounds toxic! but I just read the R & F bulletin on ventilation and the odor test. Is this true if you can smell the wax then it is a danger to your health? cause I love the smell of beeswax!

laura · 2008-01-11 16:24:04

I think people are looking for reassurances with encaustic because it's a controversial medium right now. All the issues Joanne brought up contribute to this, ranging from artists being overly cautious to not being careful enough. But I believe one of the big reasons it's controversial is because not all authorities agree about the various issues being raised here. For example, I've read and spoken with experts on art materials who believe melting wax is toxic and harmful to ones health - no matter the temperature. They're coming from a strictly clinical place, where even burning candles in ones home are considered to be releasing "toxic" fumes. I personally don't use the term this way, but I also wouldn't necessarily say they were wrong - I just consider the information for myself and draw a different conclusion than they do. And I think Ed's right - many people just don't want to do the research for themselves and have no patience for complex answers.

krc5210 · 2008-05-13 14:53:09

I'm wondering after reading this is I have proper ventilation. I have read Joanne's book, checked on-line and thought I was doing the right thing. I have a fan in the window right in front of my work table. I can see the fumes moving across the work to the window. I don't use dry pigments so haven't used a respirator. Any thoughts appreciated.
Thanks.

laura · 2008-05-13 15:11:36

What's making you question your set-up?

Ed Angell · 2008-05-13 15:54:37

One thing that struck me in this post, if your seeing fumes, your wax temperature might be to hot. You're probably seeing smoke which will contain copious amounts noxious chemicals. Try to keep the temp below 180 degrees to reduce fumes as much as possible.

Ed Angell

Jonathan Parks · 2008-06-13 15:27:22

I was going to say stupid, but thought that might be harsh. As an artist who works in various mediums, I would like to add in my seven or so odd years of knowledge on encaustic; and many more years with other mediums. I have worked in oil, egg tempera, watercolor, pastel, woodworking, metals glass and the list goes on (no tar, I avoided that like the plague- and to imagine that I was told why paint with encaustic and spend all that money when ?TAR? has the same qualities-Yikes), I sometimes mix media but prefer using them individually- multiple media. You are absolutely correct; encaustic isn?t toxic- not anymore than any other medium- you can inhale pigment mixing any medium- you burn and maim yourself with other mediums- you can catch things on fire with other mediums- etc, etc. Anyways, I just would like to add- encaustic is safe- toxicity is only coming from uneducated, misinformed individuals- for example: those who paint with tar.

Susanne Arnold · 2009-11-18 14:21:11

I think there are two other reasons people assume encaustic is toxic. One, because they think encaustic means "caustic", ie toxic. I was refused a studio once and told it was because I was working with caustic materials.

Two, well known artists, like Karl Zerbe, in the 40s and 50s added turpentine and oil paints to their encaustic medium and used a blowtorch. They died from the toxic fumes from overheating turpentine, oil, certain pigments and varnish. Stand Oil, a popular additive to oil paint and encaustic mixtures at that time, is a form of turpentine.

Memories stick, like the number of intelligent relatives who told me my cat would suck the breath of my new-born baby and I should get rid of the cat.

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#1 2007-09-09 12:19:15

Let's Talk "Toxic"

#2 2007-09-09 14:59:11

Re: Let's Talk "Toxic"

#3 2007-09-09 15:01:43

Re: Let's Talk "Toxic"

#4 2007-09-09 16:51:33

Re: Let's Talk "Toxic"

#5 2007-09-11 13:54:02

Re: Let's Talk "Toxic"

#6 2007-09-12 02:34:43

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joannemattera Member	Let's Talk "Toxic" Hi, All-- Lately I?ve been hearing about how toxic encaustic is. I mean I?m hearing this often, and from a lot of people?artists and dealers alike. Are we, as artists who work in the medium, being overly cautious? Are we being overly explanatory of its dangers? Or are we?well, some folks?just using the medium incorrectly? I think it?s all of the above. Here are some examples: . A couple of weeks ago, while taking a group of students on a ?Wax Walk? of the Provincetown galleries, we stopped before a series of lovely small landscape-ish abstractions. The dealer started to explain the encaustic process to us, describing it more or less correctly, and finished with, ?Not too many artists use it because it?s extremely toxic.? ?It?s not extremely toxic,? I said. ?Oh, yes it is,? she said. My students held their collective breath wondering what would come next. ?No, It?s not.? ?Really, it is. It?s very, very toxic.? ?Madam, I wrote the book on encaustic, and I?m telling you that if encaustic is used correctly, it most certainly is not toxic,? I said. ?People who use turpentine in the studio are working more toxically. People use pigment powder are working more toxically. But if you know what you?re doing, it?s not toxic.? . Then we went into another gallery where the artists talked about her process. She described it something like, ?I paint with layers of oil and beeswax and tar and cold wax, and sometime I throw some turpentine on it to get these nice loose areas, and then I torch the whole thing.? Well, that?s toxic. But frankly, it?s not encaustic. It?s a mixed-media painting just waiting to crack and fall off the canvas. . I made a recent studio visit to a New York artist who works in a small studio without ventilation. That?s toxic. . Then this past Friday night at an opening in Chicago, I heard an artist? one who does ventilate?say, ?Yes, I work with encaustic but it?s very toxic.? Bottom line, I think misinformation is increasing at a time when more people are engaging the medium, many of whom are using it incorrectly. I?m not sure what the answer is, but at least I can pose the question: What?s going on here?

Jim Talt Member	Re: Let's Talk "Toxic" Did either the Provincetown dealer or Chicago artist offer reasons for why they believe encaustic is toxic? If not, next time ask them why they believe it's toxic thereby providing them the opportunity to dig a deeper hole for themselves. Though they may have a point; I suspect that consumption of 10 lbs of pastilles could indeed be fatal.

Ed Angell Member	Re: Let's Talk "Toxic" Hi Joanne, nice post. The problem is that a lot of people just are to lazy to get all correct information on a subject. Critical thinking has been replaced by retold rumors and plain ignorance. All the information needed to make good judgements about any subject have never been so easy to obtain, yet people just aren't willing to do the research. What is interesting to me, this phenomena seems to be most prevalent here is the U.S. Let's hope this next round of encaustic books will seize the opportunity to further educate artists and others. Ed Angell
	Ed Angell

pfarrell Member	Re: Let's Talk "Toxic" Joanne, I wish I had been there to witness the exchange you had with the gallery owner who insisted on the toxicity of encaustic. Sounds like you responded with admirable restraint--something I might not have been able to do so easily! In response to the topic in general, here are the most common misconceptions I hear about encaustic: --it's toxic --any kind of painting involving wax of any kind, hot or cold--being referred to as encaustic --the question of encaustic having all kinds of conservation issues. this being from gallery owners and artists, though not artists working in encaustic: it's fragile, sensitive to heat, easily scratched, and that it will disintegrate over time. This is usually met with deafening silence when I respond with the common sense statement that all works of art are subject to damage if mishandled, and when I bring up the Fayum portraits at the Met. --"Oh, it's kind of like painting." (This is my favorite--from an artist after I describe the process.) I do continue to explain, describe, demonstrate, show Joanne's book...

Deanna Pindell Member	Re: Let's Talk "Toxic" I wonder if some artists or dealers are over-emphasizing this point in order to enhance the aura of "uniqueness" or "rarity" of the medium... perhaps as a selling point to increase the dollar value or collectibility of these artworks ?? Or perhaps are some artists even trying to discourage other artists from trying it, to keep encaustic from becoming too popular or common ?? Yes, that's a cynical note, and I do agree with you, Ed, about American culture toward personal responsibility.... but oh, well...!! Best to you all, just keep on doing what you're doing and enjoying. Deanna

little doodler Member	Re: Let's Talk "Toxic" i think this is the just the state of humanity. We are run by fear.

Rodney Thompson Member	Re: Let's Talk "Toxic" This is all very puzzling to me. Prior to discovering encaustic I was working on sheet lead with powdered pigments, acid, patina chemicals, and flaming the whole thing with a torch. Now that's toxic! Of course I wore a respirator, worked outside and used a vacuum to try to pick up stray dust, and frequently had my lead blood level checked. I knew it was dangerous but was seduced by the materials and what I could do with them. Once I tried encaustic I left all that other stuff behind and was delighted at what a benign, natural, and safe medium I had found, that offerred even more seductive and creative possibilities. Anything can be dangerous and toxic, even water and oxygen, if not used properly. It is up to the artist to know the risks and precautions involved with whatever materials we work with and use them as safely as possible. It would be sad if incorrect information leads to any diminished use or appreciation of this wonderful medium just as it begins its resurgence. I wonder sometimes if the term "encaustic" leads to misunderstanding, since when I ask someone if they know what encaustic is, I often get a response like "is it acid" or "something corrosive", because of the "caustic" part of the word. I suppose it is too late to change the name.
	Rodney Thompson Sorry. You have to be registered to access this content.

Layton Member	Re: Let's Talk "Toxic" I am puzzled by this topic. First off, I practice safety and proper venting in the studio. What I get from galleries (mostly finicky ones) has nothing to do with toxic (I don't think it's an issue to them, when the bottom line is money and will it sell in their gallery.) The biggest thing I get is "IKE" it's wax won't it melt! I know it's my job as an artist to let them know the stability of the medium and that proper conditions/enviroment (which most people have....if their buying gallery art) but I still get that hesitation and that "we'll have to see response." So, toxic I throw out the window every time I go to the supermarket to buy meats, produce,etc. I know what works for me and that is to just be aware of what goes on in my studio and use my better judgement, always wash your hands. Layton

little doodler Member	Re: Let's Talk "Toxic" just the word encaustic, sounds toxic! but I just read the R & F bulletin on ventilation and the odor test. Is this true if you can smell the wax then it is a danger to your health? cause I love the smell of beeswax!

laura R&F Staff	Re: Let's Talk "Toxic" I think people are looking for reassurances with encaustic because it's a controversial medium right now. All the issues Joanne brought up contribute to this, ranging from artists being overly cautious to not being careful enough. But I believe one of the big reasons it's controversial is because not all authorities agree about the various issues being raised here. For example, I've read and spoken with experts on art materials who believe melting wax is toxic and harmful to ones health - no matter the temperature. They're coming from a strictly clinical place, where even burning candles in ones home are considered to be releasing "toxic" fumes. I personally don't use the term this way, but I also wouldn't necessarily say they were wrong - I just consider the information for myself and draw a different conclusion than they do. And I think Ed's right - many people just don't want to do the research for themselves and have no patience for complex answers.
	Laura Moriarty Director of Exhibitions & Workshops R&F Handmade Paints laura@rfpaints.com

krc5210 Member	Re: Let's Talk "Toxic" I'm wondering after reading this is I have proper ventilation. I have read Joanne's book, checked on-line and thought I was doing the right thing. I have a fan in the window right in front of my work table. I can see the fumes moving across the work to the window. I don't use dry pigments so haven't used a respirator. Any thoughts appreciated. Thanks.

laura R&F Staff	Re: Let's Talk "Toxic" What's making you question your set-up?
	Laura Moriarty Director of Exhibitions & Workshops R&F Handmade Paints laura@rfpaints.com

Ed Angell Member	Re: Let's Talk "Toxic" One thing that struck me in this post, if your seeing fumes, your wax temperature might be to hot. You're probably seeing smoke which will contain copious amounts noxious chemicals. Try to keep the temp below 180 degrees to reduce fumes as much as possible. Ed Angell
	Ed Angell

Jonathan Parks Member	Re: Let's Talk "Toxic" I was going to say stupid, but thought that might be harsh. As an artist who works in various mediums, I would like to add in my seven or so odd years of knowledge on encaustic; and many more years with other mediums. I have worked in oil, egg tempera, watercolor, pastel, woodworking, metals glass and the list goes on (no tar, I avoided that like the plague- and to imagine that I was told why paint with encaustic and spend all that money when ?TAR? has the same qualities-Yikes), I sometimes mix media but prefer using them individually- multiple media. You are absolutely correct; encaustic isn?t toxic- not anymore than any other medium- you can inhale pigment mixing any medium- you burn and maim yourself with other mediums- you can catch things on fire with other mediums- etc, etc. Anyways, I just would like to add- encaustic is safe- toxicity is only coming from uneducated, misinformed individuals- for example: those who paint with tar.

Susanne Arnold Member	Re: Let's Talk "Toxic" I think there are two other reasons people assume encaustic is toxic. One, because they think encaustic means "caustic", ie toxic. I was refused a studio once and told it was because I was working with caustic materials. Two, well known artists, like Karl Zerbe, in the 40s and 50s added turpentine and oil paints to their encaustic medium and used a blowtorch. They died from the toxic fumes from overheating turpentine, oil, certain pigments and varnish. Stand Oil, a popular additive to oil paint and encaustic mixtures at that time, is a form of turpentine. Memories stick, like the number of intelligent relatives who told me my cat would suck the breath of my new-born baby and I should get rid of the cat.
	ska