R&F Handmade Paints Forums

artcatty · 2011-10-21 14:26:53

This subject has been skirted around, as far as I've read here, but not directly addressed. (Unless I missed it in the 18 pages I just read! lol)

Couldn't I do a mixed media collage, possibly including acrylic paint, or at least watercolor, gouache, chalk pastel, ink jet prints, etc., then seal it with something clear (oil-based perhaps) so that it will then accept encaustic? Or could I simply put a coat of beeswax over the whole thing an then go to town with encaustics?

laura · 2011-10-25 12:09:33

Hi artcatty,

Thanks for doing all that digging!

In short, yes you can do a mixed media collage and then go to town with encaustic, but you will have an easier time of it and create more stable works if you stick with porous materials. The do's and don'ts of encaustic painting can seem stifling, but as an artist, obviously, you can do whatever you want to make your work. This post touches on a few points you may want to consider, though.

because acrylic is non-absorbent, layering encaustic over it runs the risk of having your work dis-adhere from it's ground. There could be situations where you decide this risk is minimal. There are artists who are pushing back at this rule, and I suspect at some point someone will figure out a way to make it work. If you are concerned about the stability of your work, though, absorbency is the path of least resistance with encaustic.

The paper that you collage and the materials you use on them may or may not provide sufficient absorbency for the wax - it depends on the paper, and whether the acrylic adhesive is saturating through and sealing the surface, (diminishing the absorbency).

Most sealants, kind of by definition, are not absorbent.

Beeswax also needs an absorbent ground, so it has no advantage over encaustic paint in this regard.

Have I mentioned absorbency enough for you? That's really what it all boils down to.

I hope this helps, and is not full of redundancies from past posts.

artcatty · 2011-10-26 11:29:44

Thank you for the information, Laura.

I get that my "under" materials must be absorbant for good adhesion of encaustic.
Perhaps my original question was not clear enough, or perhaps we are heading onto the shaky ground where there is no product made by R&F to address my concern and therefore we can't discuss it, but...(just in case)

Is there a clear sealer, (perhaps an oil based- sealer?)that I can use over my mixed-media collage before then applying encaustic to it? In other words, say I do a colllage, using various papers, and I glue them down so that there is no coating over the top of them (if this will even work I don't know because I usually put some kind of an acrylic medium on top to make them stick smoothly.) But suppose I just glue the uundersides. THen is there something I can apply that will !) help them stick and 2) be an absorbant and receptive ground for encaustic? Nevermind the acrylic paint- I can do without using that if it complicates the issue.

I had thought maybe I could use Damar varnish, but I'd rather not try that because when I apply the encaustic medium and heat it I'd be concerned about safety.

So my original question, if it is answerable is: Is there a clear sealer I can use over collage before encaustic.

Thank you in advance to anyone who is able to answer (or speculate.)

laura · 2011-10-26 17:13:45

Hi artcatty,

My answers are not limited to what products R&F manufactures and sells. If I'm understanding you, it sounds like you are looking for an absorbent sealant. Is that correct? I personally do not know of a clear one, (because like I said, sealants are by nature meant to 'seal'), but you could try shopping that query around and see what you find, and in the meantime, I will confer with my colleagues in the R&D dept. and get back to you with anything I learn.

Keep in mind that absorbent is absorbent - there is no special level of absorbency especially for encaustic, so you don't really have to get into that.

laura · 2011-10-27 11:42:16

I wonder, is there some reason why you don't want to do this with clear encaustic medium? That seems like the logical choice to me. That would unify your ground, give you an opportunity to smooth everything down using gentle scraping, and you'd have a perfectly primed surface for further encaustic painting, or more mixed media layers.

artcatty · 2011-10-28 20:29:51

I guess I just thought it wouldn't adhere over the papers that have been glued down with acrylic medium, but I suppose I can glue them on the underside as I mentioned before, and that may solve the problem. It's time to hit the workshop and try it!
Thanks for your help, Laura!

laura · 2011-10-31 16:20:46

I think if you make sure all those papers are absorbent, and that you glue them minimally and neatly from the back, encaustic medium will be the answer you are looking for.

good luck
Laura

artcatty · 2011-11-01 15:36:51

Thanks, Laura, that's what I think I'll try.

eliserugolo · 2011-11-11 19:58:22

I agree with Laura that using the medium as your sealant is a good solution. Part of the reason why I started working in encaustic was to eliminate all the technical hassle of dealing with glues and acrylic mediums in adhering my collage elements. Here is another suggestion regarding your actual collage development: If you like to work on a colored ground, apply gouache or watercolor directly to your panel or over a base of encaustic gesso, or if you prefer white, then just use the gesso. Allow adequate time for this to dry. Apply one or more coats of encaustic medium and get the surface as smooth as possible (often the hardest part for me!), then you can start laying out your collage elements directly on the wax surface. It is a lot easier to make changes when you use the encaustic medium as your "glue" simply by reheating the collage piece and repositioning. You'll quickly get a sense for the way different papers or fabrics respond to this approach--some may need to be more on the surface as they could get lost with successive applications of medium. I feel you can get more interesting spatial effects with this approach because the more wax medium you use over a collage element, the more it gets "pushed back" due to atmospheric effects. I think you'll find that your collages have a lot more dimension this way than if you simply coat a finished collage with the medium. Of course, I don't know exactly what you are looking for...perhaps you prefer a less dimensional result. Have fun!

artcatty · 2011-11-16 19:23:43

Thank you, Elise. I was away and just saw this now. I think that's what I'm going for, and I can add color here and there. Sounds fun

R&F Handmade Paints

R&F Handmade Paints Forums

#1 2011-10-21 14:26:53

Clear sealer to use over collage BEFORE encaustic?

#2 2011-10-25 12:09:33

Re: Clear sealer to use over collage BEFORE encaustic?

#3 2011-10-26 11:29:44

Re: Clear sealer to use over collage BEFORE encaustic?

#4 2011-10-26 17:13:45

Re: Clear sealer to use over collage BEFORE encaustic?

#5 2011-10-27 11:42:16

Re: Clear sealer to use over collage BEFORE encaustic?

#6 2011-10-28 20:29:51

Re: Clear sealer to use over collage BEFORE encaustic?

#7 2011-10-31 16:20:46

Re: Clear sealer to use over collage BEFORE encaustic?

#8 2011-11-01 15:36:51

Re: Clear sealer to use over collage BEFORE encaustic?

#9 2011-11-11 19:58:22

Re: Clear sealer to use over collage BEFORE encaustic?

#10 2011-11-16 19:23:43

Re: Clear sealer to use over collage BEFORE encaustic?

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artcatty Member	Clear sealer to use over collage BEFORE encaustic? This subject has been skirted around, as far as I've read here, but not directly addressed. (Unless I missed it in the 18 pages I just read! lol) Couldn't I do a mixed media collage, possibly including acrylic paint, or at least watercolor, gouache, chalk pastel, ink jet prints, etc., then seal it with something clear (oil-based perhaps) so that it will then accept encaustic? Or could I simply put a coat of beeswax over the whole thing an then go to town with encaustics?

laura R&F Staff	Re: Clear sealer to use over collage BEFORE encaustic? Hi artcatty, Thanks for doing all that digging! In short, yes you can do a mixed media collage and then go to town with encaustic, but you will have an easier time of it and create more stable works if you stick with porous materials. The do's and don'ts of encaustic painting can seem stifling, but as an artist, obviously, you can do whatever you want to make your work. This post touches on a few points you may want to consider, though. because acrylic is non-absorbent, layering encaustic over it runs the risk of having your work dis-adhere from it's ground. There could be situations where you decide this risk is minimal. There are artists who are pushing back at this rule, and I suspect at some point someone will figure out a way to make it work. If you are concerned about the stability of your work, though, absorbency is the path of least resistance with encaustic. The paper that you collage and the materials you use on them may or may not provide sufficient absorbency for the wax - it depends on the paper, and whether the acrylic adhesive is saturating through and sealing the surface, (diminishing the absorbency). Most sealants, kind of by definition, are not absorbent. Beeswax also needs an absorbent ground, so it has no advantage over encaustic paint in this regard. Have I mentioned absorbency enough for you? That's really what it all boils down to. I hope this helps, and is not full of redundancies from past posts.
	Laura Moriarty Director of Exhibitions & Workshops R&F Handmade Paints laura@rfpaints.com

eliserugolo Member	Re: Clear sealer to use over collage BEFORE encaustic? I agree with Laura that using the medium as your sealant is a good solution. Part of the reason why I started working in encaustic was to eliminate all the technical hassle of dealing with glues and acrylic mediums in adhering my collage elements. Here is another suggestion regarding your actual collage development: If you like to work on a colored ground, apply gouache or watercolor directly to your panel or over a base of encaustic gesso, or if you prefer white, then just use the gesso. Allow adequate time for this to dry. Apply one or more coats of encaustic medium and get the surface as smooth as possible (often the hardest part for me!), then you can start laying out your collage elements directly on the wax surface. It is a lot easier to make changes when you use the encaustic medium as your "glue" simply by reheating the collage piece and repositioning. You'll quickly get a sense for the way different papers or fabrics respond to this approach--some may need to be more on the surface as they could get lost with successive applications of medium. I feel you can get more interesting spatial effects with this approach because the more wax medium you use over a collage element, the more it gets "pushed back" due to atmospheric effects. I think you'll find that your collages have a lot more dimension this way than if you simply coat a finished collage with the medium. Of course, I don't know exactly what you are looking for...perhaps you prefer a less dimensional result. Have fun!